The Orioles are on a nine-game losing streak and have the worst record in baseball. Three weeks ago, they had a delightful flight home from Seattle after John Means pitched perhaps the best game in franchise history.
Since that no-hitter, the team has lost 16 of 18. Before the latest loss, Orioles’ executive vice president/general manager Mike Elias spoke about the team’s poor play.
The Orioles’ bullpen woes aren’t likely to be solved by pitchers on the 40-man roster. There are seven pitchers on the 40-man roster who are not on the team’s active roster, though one of them, Dillon Tate, will be activated for Thursday night’s game in Chicago. Tate has been on the injured list because of a strained left hamstring.
Another, Travis Lakins, was sent down to Triple-A Norfolk on Sunday after a number of poor performances. Only Isaac Mattson, and Mac Sceroler, who’s on the 10-day injured list because of tendinitis in his right shoulder, are pure relievers on the 40-man roster.
“A lot of our 40-man players in Triple-A are a little beaten up right now,” Elias said. “It’s a shorter number of optionable options than you would like to have, but that happens to every team. We may be above average in that regard.”
Sceroler should be ready soon, and Hunter Harvey, who has been on the 60-day injured list because of a left oblique injury, could rejoin the team as soon as next week.
“This is all about depth and navigating the season,” Elias said. “We would like to get the entire group healthy all at once. It would make things easier. I knew this was going to be a very difficult season to navigate, especially with us having to worry about the health of these young pitchers.”
There are several pitchers at Norfolk who aren’t on the 40-man roster who could be candidates for the Orioles. One might be Spenser Watkins, who pitched six hitless innings for the Tides on Sunday.
“As we told all those guys in spring training, they’re going to be needed, to a man. I think it’s going to happen at some point in time for a lot of them. They’ve just got to keep putting their work in and pitching well at Triple-A and waiting for the confluence of opportunity and timing, and I think we’ll see some of that group.”
Another area that’s drawn criticism is the catching duo of Pedro Severino and Chance Sisco, who have floundered offensively and, especially, defensively. Strong catching should be a priority, especially with a young pitching staff, and top prospect Adley Rutschman isn’t likely to be rushed. Currently, there isn’t another catcher on the 40-man roster.
“We’re keeping an eye on what everyone is doing in Triple-A,” Elias said. “I have been frustrated at times with a lot of defensive performances on the team, but understanding that this is a tough game and players are working hard and we’re going to try to get the most out of them … but, ultimately, if we get to the point where a different mix would be to the benefit of not only those players themselves, but the pitching staff and team at large, we’re going to look at that and consider that.
“I know that there have been frustrations, and we share them. We’re not at that point. We’re going to continue to push and look.”
Elias had hoped for measured improvement this year.
“I don’t think anybody’s happy about the win/loss record,” he said. “It’s very important for us to remain focused and committed. Overreacting briefly to struggles from young players, making rash roster decisions with guys who have bright futures is not in our long-term nor our short-term best interests.”
Some of the players who performed well last year but haven’t this year are Ryan Mountcastle, who has played first base, left field and served as the designated hitter, and left-handed reliever Tanner Scott. Both appear to have bright futures but are struggling — Mountcastle is chasing pitches out of the strike zone, especially breaking balls, and Scott has lost command of his slider and fastball.
Elias has said that when he brings up players, he wants them to stay with the Orioles but a number of been sent back to the minors. Among those are starters Keegan Akin, Dean Kremer and Bruce Zimmermann, and outfielder DJ Stewart.
“It’s frustrating to see that especially with [Mountcastle and Scott] and others having such smooth years last year in the shortened season,” Elias said about 2020’s 60-game schedule. “It’s more often than not that there are ups and downs with young players, and it’s the exception that comes up and just continuously performs well in the major leagues.
“We’re understanding of that, but we’ve got to put the work in, and we’ve got to put them in positions to improve … if we feel at any time that someone is overwhelmed, that their development would be better benefited from being in Norfolk than being in the major league environment, we will do that, but suffice to say that guys are on the major league roster because we want them to be there. We see better performances on the horizon for a lot of these guys.”
The Orioles have the fifth pick in July’s player draft. ‘
“We’re far from getting all of our scouts and our analysts in the same room to debate players and line up the board,” Elias said. “We have a lot of time.”
Capacity limits are being lifted for games at Oriole Park, but fans are impatient with the pace of the rebuild.
“It’s very painful,” Elias said. “We follow this team as well on a night-in, night-out basis. We’re living it. We understand the length of losing that this fan base has gone through, dating back to 2017, in a lot of ways. This is a long time, but we have a lot of systemic work that has needed to be done.
“We were not participating internationally. That’s a third of the cost-control talent in baseball. We had issues that needed to be updated across player development and the analytics base. We’ve put in that work, and we’ll continue to put in that work and, meanwhile, we’re allowing young players the chance to play and stick in the major leagues.
“While the overall record and performance has been very difficult in that time, we are seeing some rewards from that.”
Elias cited Austin Hays, John Means and Cedric Mullins as examples.
“It takes more than one season or two seasons, especially in the division that we’re in,” he said. “We’re going to start seeing results eventually, I’m very confident in that.”
Elias said that the Orioles will move prospects to higher levels. They promoted right-hander Kyle Bradish from Double-A Bowie to Triple-A Norfolk this week.
“We may be doing more big name moves in the next week or two,” Elias said. “Normally, a month of minor league play, you take with a grain of salt, but this is the first real data that we’ve gotten on some of these guys in well over a year and we’ve got to react to it probably a little more aggressive than we would otherwise.”
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If Elias says nothing, then you say he doesn’t care. When he says something, you pick it apart as hogwash. Nobody likes this situation right now, but what are you going to do...let it play out. We are losing right now, but we’re competitive and that means a lot right there. Remember 2018, we had a team of veterans that was supposed to compete for a World Series and look what happened...and Elias wasn’t here for that. Athletes are super competitive, they don’t enjoy losing either
Agree.
AMEN!!!
This team is not competitive in any way, shape, or form. I have been an Orioles fan for more than 50 years and we are not just losing right now, we have been losing for decades. Jerry Hoffberger, Frank Cashen, and Earl Weaver would be spinning in their graves if they saw how low Edward Bennett Williams and the Angelos family have brought this franchise. I remember an Orioles franchise that consistently won pennants and played in World Series. That franchise is long in the past.
I wish Baltimore could be rid of the ownership group, Elias, and Hyde. Maybe some of you are satisfied with Elias' clown ass saying, "iT's a rEBuiLd!" but I don't see any improvement. This is bad baseball, and it is insulting to Baltimore and the Orioles fan base.
AMEN !! GLORY HALLELUJAH !!
Geeze Hallbe...I've been saying this for quite some time .. but all you do is call me a liar.
Sorry for hurting your feelings.
You can call me Brian, if you like Ken. Or Brian boy......I deserve that.
I guess you could say....my feelings were bruised a little by some of your comments in the past. The way I read some of your comments.....you were attacking me personally instead of my possibly lacking opinion. As I've stated recently, I'm no MLB GM and I don't try to be.
But I do know good baseball when I see it and I have a decent baseball IQ.
Will Elias's plan work ? Yes, eventually it will. Will I be around to see it is the only question that matters to me.
The Angelos shrinking wallet trick will grate me along the way and so will folks who attack me personally instead of my opinion.
Have a great day Ken
I completely agree. This franchise is a disgrace to competitive sports. Mike Elias is a bad joke and should be immediately replaced
I guess 2012 to 2016 never happened in your argument when the Os were the winningest team in baseball under Buck Showalter huh Old Os Fan?
2012-2016: Nothing to show for it. No AL Pennant. No World Championship. So yes, it might as well never have happened.
Amen OOF, also a fan of over 55 yrs, tell my son all the time about the O’s 3 WS championships in my lifetime, my brothers are Indians fans, have never experienced a WS championship, my son is a diehard O’s fan because of his old man, hopefully he gets to see 1 in his lifetime...go O’s...
All sounds good, good strategy, good approach.
“We’re going to start seeing results eventually. I’m very confident in that.”, oh you are seeing results, they’re just not good...go O’s...
"Elias had hoped for measured improvement this year."
Why exactly did he expect improvement? Because of the awesome additions of Frahhnco and Galvis? Did he expect these less than great minor league pitchers to turn into Palmer and Moose overnite? Because he built a cinderblock palace in the D.R.? What exactly did he do, to create these heightened expectations?
I admit ..I thought they were going to improve as well. I expected 80 wins this year. But then again, I'm an idiot.
As far as inconsistencies from mountcastle and Scott mountcastle seems to get going then have a game where he’s 0-4 with two line drives that puts his average back down. Scott is another guy who’s struggled without Holt no coincidence of you ask me. At least he admitted the catching issue and sounds like he’s not happy with it. Hopefully severino and Sisco get the message. I get they don’t want to give up on players but guys like Stewart have had four years of opportunities dating back to 2017 and he has not done anything with them. There is no pitching help at triple a. Lowther and Wells both have struggled. As far as promotions I think Henderson gets one he’s raking. I get he’s young but at he’s shown he can handle the south Atlantic league. Westburg is probably going to get one too. I agree that we’re going to see results. Duquette put us in this rebuild with his bad drafting. Yes I know he drafted hall and Rodriguez but he did nothing before that. It was reach after reach. If your gonna give up your first two picks in 2014 you better make sure the rest of the draft is productive. That’s what makes the dodgers so good. Stewart has done nothing. We haven’t seen sedlock which is due in some part of injuries. Akin was a second round pick. You’ve seen what he’s done. The cupboard was bare when Elias got here.
Who exactly was it that drafted Mountcastle, Mullins and Rodriguez? There are others, but I don't want to get into it again. The cupboard wasn't as bare as some believe.
Ok so he had some players he hit on. Do we not remember that Mullins sucked under duquette and showalter and Elias and the development team had to fix it. I gave duquette credit for Rodriguez. But two players don’t make him a good drafter.
I'm not saying he drafted well. All I said is that the cupboard isn't as bare as the Elias sycophants like to believe.
And Mullins didn't suck under Buck and Duq. He was a baby a played decently his rooking year. It was in 2019 after about 60 odd terrible at bats that the current regime pulled the plug and sent him down ... as they always do. (see Chance Sisco) I say it now, and I said it then...that was a mistake. Gotta show some patience with the young guys. Gotta give 'em a couple of solid years before making a call.
The current regime started in November of 2019 well after that season.
Check yourself #1 ... with all due respect, Elias was hired on November 16th of 2018. Not 2019.
2019 was an Elias year
Your right BRR. Is it cold in here? LOL
Keep reading Elias has had only 2 drafts and 1 was only 5 rounds for the first time. Keep forgetting the draft though is the following year so counting back I miscounted! So, yes it was 2018 when Elias was hired. Right on!
Seems like every three months (if that long) this comes up...go O’s...
47 wins in Duquette’s final year. Also it looks like he got fleeced in the Machado deal. In Elias we trust!!!
I agree in my opinion we should’ve gotten may or verdugo. The orioles had the leverage and the dodgers didn’t. If they really wanted manny they would’ve paid the price for him.
The Dodgers bought a one year rental. The Dodgers knew they weren't going to pay him after that year.
Manny was at the end of his contract, the year was half over, and by the time the O's traded him, it was too late to have leverage over anyone. The O's should have traded him the year before during the offseason when teams would have bid him up. That was there mistake.
I guess a calm approach by Elias might be grating on us when we wanna see someone throwing chairs around but it's what's needed(gulp I said that). Yes Mountcastle,Mullins,Hays came from Duquette but the whole system has been bare. No Latin market or talent slows things(baseball's number 1 there,number 3 here). But this pitching or lack of development of it is the curse that was handed Elias. The young talent here now might just be overrated(Mountcastle/Stewart/Kremer/Akin). If you hate sending players down--THEN WHY DID YOU SEND KREMER DOWN? Get another catcher up here. This apparent complacency is playing with fire--Baltomore just might not care as much we on this site do. Then things will get real ugly. Well that's my ramble--whatever I just said.
I think it's time to throw a few chairs. In Bobby Knight fashion !! But not in the Orioles locker room. I'd say the appropriate location for said chairs would be the Angelos bros. front yard.
Then of course, I'd be heading for the unemployment line, but with a huge smile on my face.
When things go south in any profession or organization, in or out of sports, accountability is paramount to correction or improvement.
Who do I hold accountable ? The Angelos family. They are rolling the dice with their fans. Do successful CEO's stand before their shareholders asking for patience after posting monetary losses year after year.
I've said enough. I'm no Baseball General Manager, and I don't pretend to be. But I do know, it takes money to make money. And maybe a few tossed chairs along the way.
Rant over
Spot on Halle62, said quite awhile ago it takes money to make money, no one seemed to care, glad there is someone else of that mindset....go O’s...
2 thumbs up Brian
Thanks Ken
"said quite awhile ago it takes money to make money" - Don't have to look far - Here's the Washington Nationals Estimated Final 2020 Payroll: $182M last place finish. And Estimated 2021 Payroll: $201M per FanGraphs and in last place again. I'm guessing 383MM for two last place finishes doesn't get you very much! LOL Go O's
This is all true no doubt, but what was their payroll the year they won the World Series? And let's not forget, they started that year horrendously. They were in last place as late as the month June that year. Last year they only played 60. Who's to say they wouldn't perform well over what was supposed to be another 102?
Nothing in 2020 counts in my book.
Because you asked $172,307,808 in 2019. So payroll went up over the next 2 years while the production went down. Well one thing definitely counts in 2020 they paid out handsomely for a last place finish. Oh, and by the way, aberration and not the norm in 2019? Very well could be. They were in last place that year also.
Speaking of 2019, the Cubs had the third highest payroll at $221,590,085 and at crunch time to make the playoffs they finished 2 - 8 in their last 10 games. The Giants that same year 5th largest payroll at $178,582,126 and finished 77 - 85 and 3 - 7 in their last 10 games. The Angels 72 - 90 with their payroll at 9th at $161,270,385. Next up, the Phillies 81 - 81 and 4th place and their payroll at $159,637,244. The Rockies finished 71 - 91 with 1 game out of the cellar with their payroll at $157,162,629. The Rangers finished 78 - 84 with a team payroll at $148,538,766. The last place Mariners finished 68 - 94 with a Team Payroll certainly not of a last place team at $144,391,293. The Reds finished 75 - 87 with a team payroll at $128,391,569. The last place Tigers finished 47 - 114 with a team payroll well over 100 million at $114,631,137. The Blue Jays 4h place out of 5 finished 67 - 95 with a team payroll at $111,371,067. How about the Royals you ask, they finished last at 59 - 103 and spent over a 100 million with a team payroll at $104,773,003.
And the other side of the coin the A's finished 2nd at 97 - 65 with a Team payroll sitting at 25th at $93,394,531. Tampa Bay Rays finished 2nd at 96 - 66 with a payroll ranked 30th out of 30 teams and their payroll sat at $64,178,722.
So in essence, what were all these teams paying for except for the A's and Rays... Wait for it.... mediocrity. High price to pay for that!
Somebody should point out to the Boy Genius that Tampa Bay and Oakland never tank and are always competitive. And Tampa Bay is one of the best teams in MLB. So the Houston "Tankers R Us" model is NOT the only way to build a team.
2 Thumbs up ...
Two thumbs up...:)...go O’s...
While those teams never tank they do have down years. Before the as current run they were bad and the same goes for the rays. There’s obviously some exceptions but not every team can do what those two can do.
I agree to a degree. Oak/TB had elite farm systems that were big league ready while the O's had close to the worst with nothing close to ready. Good farm systems have a way of making "rebuilds" almost unrecognizable while barren farm systems have to start at the bottom and take forever--level by level. The O's don't even have AAA talent that's ready to go while Oak/TB could probably field a big league club out of their MiLB teams. That's how ugly the O's organization has been.
Orial--
That is a good assessment. The Orioles Norfolk Roster is bereft of talent.
Bowie, Aberdeen and Delmarva are where the talent exists. Those players won't be able to contribute until later next season at the earliest.
We are just going to have to sweat this one out...I see two additional strong Amateur Drafts and two International Signing periods and by then the Orioles will have a base of strength to operate from.
More of this "tanking" nonsense ... 47-115 in Duquette's final season, was the ultimate tank job ... and only 4 winning seasons in the 21 years before Elias got here ... Elias inherited a dysfunctional franchise, starting with ownership on down ... as noted, unlike in Tampa and Oakland, Elias inherited a bad farm system, without international participation.
I agree that Elias inherited a dysfunction franchise, BECAUSE of ownership. But to deny that Elias has ever tanked ....well the eyes must be wide shut.
Tampa Bay Devil Rays
Year Pos W L .pct GB
1998 MLB AL East 5th 63 99 .389 51
1999 MLB AL East 5th 69 93 .426 29
2000 MLB AL East 5th 69 92 .429 18
2001 MLB AL East 5th 62 100 .383 34
2002 MLB AL East 5th 55 106 .342 48
2003 MLB AL East 5th 63 99 .389 38
2004 MLB AL East 4th 70 91 .435 30½
2005 MLB AL East 5th 67 95 .414 28
2006 MLB AL East 5th 61 101 .377 36
2007 MLB AL East 5th 66 96 .407 30
What was that about Tampa Bay???
And the Oakland A's
Year Pos W L .pct GB
2015 MLB AL West 5th 68 94 .420 20
2016 MLB AL West 5th 69 93 .426 26
2017 MLB AL West 5th 75 87 .463 26
and the Oakland A's certainly not the best division in baseball.
Why don't you list the results from 2008 on, O's #1 flunky?
BECAUSE THAT WASN'T THE STATEMENT MADE BY SOME AZZHOLE, SINCE THE SHOE FITS HERE!!! LOL There's always one slow learner in the back! Statement that was made by you - “Tampa Bay and Oakland NEVER TANKED and are ALWAYS COMPETITIVE”. And again, I just proved that was wrong – For 10 years Tampa Bay – “Always competitive” – I don’t think so! And for 10 “Tank” years with great draft pick locations surely the team was rebuilt.
#1, you stopped TB after 2007, last place, new ownership after 2007 season & how’d they do, 2008 Pennant, lost WS to Philly, I’d take the current TB way & ownership...go O’s...
Statement was made "Tampa Bay and Oakland never tank and are always competitive". I just proved that was wrong - For 10 years Tampa Bay - "Always competitive" - I don't think so! And for 10 "Tank" years with great draft pick locations surely the team was rebuilt
So is the Boy Genius going to TANK for 10 years, O's#1 Flunky?
No, Miss Vicky, you bitter old crow. He already has the number 5 ranked minor league system in just 2 drafts and 1 draft was only 5 rounds. Plus add in all the trades he made and the International guys the Orioles are getting, the Orioles will be number 1 really soon.
Their fans are no where close to the tradition and passion of O's fans. Btw, both teams have terrible attendance and terrible stadiums and are in the queue to move. Both are great examples of Moneyball. The Rays started by investing in player development. Both teams trade players for for potential in other players. They seem to have a different roster every year. The reality is the PA culture for the O's has proven to be a loser. I don't like a number of Elias' decisions, just like I didn't like a number of Dan's. But fixing dysfunction is hard, Dan couldn't do it and became part of it. Elias might end up in the same place. Getting a proven manager would help. As well as strong defense capable players. I don't want us to be the A's, Rays, Astros, I want the O's to be their own model of success. Otherwise we are on our way to becoming the Pirates.
Well said Phil...go O’s...
No results from 2008 because they don’t fit his agenda, see how easily numbers can be skewed to say pretty much whatever someone wants...go O’s...
Again, that wasn't the idiotic statement here. Statement was made “Tampa Bay and Oakland NEVER TANKED and are ALWAYS COMPETITIVE - and in my agenda, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon to figure this out here, I just proved that was wrong! For 10 years Tampa Bay – “Always competitive” – I don’t think so! 10 years of losing is nothing skewed here. These numbers FOR 10 YEARS DON"T LIE. CASE CLOSED! And for 10 “Tank” years with great draft picks surely the team was finally rebuilt. Let me know when that fits your agenda.
Finishing last in your division doesn’t necessarily mean tanking, they were bad, unlike what Mikey has assembled on purpose, tanking...go O’s...
#1, we have much more civil conversations when you’re not involved, you ALWAYS attack people, just for disagreeing with you, this has been & is much more fun when you’re not involved...go ahead & attack...go O’s...
Where's the attack? Common sense says 10 years of losing is 10 years of losing and 9 of those years finished last and the 1 they didn't finished 2nd from last. So for 10 years of losing the Rays finally got it right and you're praising them? Elias has been on 2 drafts and 1 was for only 5 rounds and all we hear from you is how bad the guys doing. And be careful when used the term always and never. It comes back to bite you!
Just reread your statements, rocket scientist, brain surgeon, Miss Vicky, bitter old crow, Azzhole...go O’s...
Those were intended for someone that started this "flunky" crap, not you. And if you like 10 straight years of losing to finally getting it right more power to you.
Me, I like what Elias is doing. 5th best farm system in 2 drafts (really 1 & 1/2 with only 5 rounds). Trades and instituting the overseas signings and hirings. If it takes 10 years to finally getting it right and calling it "my agenda", then you should be praising Elias for this time frame and not taking your shots.
I did praise them, it was new ownership, they went from 10 yrs of last place to the pennant & WS, that is worthy of praise...:)...go O’s...
2014 no 1st or 2 rd pick Gonzalez 3rd rd
2015 1st rd Stewart 2nd Mountcastle
2016 1st rd Sedlock 2nd Keegan Akin
2017 1st DL Hall 2nd A Hall
2018 1st G Rodriguez 2nd Grayner
2019 1st A Rutchman 2nd Gunnar Henderson
2020 1st Kirstead 2nd Haskins
What does this show ? Well the drafts that
Should be giving you talent 13-16 are giving you nothing . They were all reaches or no top picks because of free agent signings add to that zero activity in the Caribbean or South America and you get a dearth of talent .
Now Elias can’t fix that nor can he fix the 2nd round reaches by Duquette when he got a nice 1st round pick .
What concerns me is the lack of fundamentals if I was a pitcher I’d be scared to pitch to these catchers they can’t catch the ball much less call a game and while we’re on the subject of calling a game why do you pitch to Sano ? He is red hot once again Hyde is a step behind .
Elias is on track but he needs at least one more good draft and more importantly he needs additional top coaching and managerial talent because they’re flat out NOT holding players accountable. It’s not new to this organization but when your talent is marginal at best it shows up magnified.
Mountcastle will produce. Rodriguez and DL Hall are legit. Rutschman, Henderson, Kjerstad, Westburg are going to be good. I think Bradish and Baumann will be in the rotation perhaps next year. Things will be on the upswing soon.
Let me reiterate--Elias inherited an awful farm system that until recently only had the amateur draft and trades to boost it up. For that and Covid delaying the process I'll give him a B for at least manning the lower levels and getting a base of operations in the Latin market. BUT where he fails is fielding an acceptable(or at least mediocre) big league club. That I fear is the financial restraints put on him and same financial restraints that could inevitably ruin this team to it's everyday/common fanbase. Being the eternal pessimist I really pray that the beauty of Camden Yards will hold everything together for at least 3-4 more years(crucial period).
Well stated !
Orial ... I agree with your analysis ... I wish the Orioles were also trying to field a more competitive team for the next year or two, while the necessary process of building the "talent pipeline" is underway. But that would require at least a modest spike in payroll spending (currently 29th or 30th in MLB), which ownership is clearly unwilling (or unable) to do at this point. Not much we can expect Elias to do to immediately upgrade the team, when he's operating with a $9 million budget for an entire 14 man pitching staff ... Agree that there is cause for concern about the future stability of the franchise.
Birdman, this is an excellent point and the crux of the criticism of Elias. I believe that the Angelos brothers provided Elias a budget and he has chosen to spend nearly all of it on filling the pipeline with players with potential, player development tools, expanded back office staff (including exit packages for some long-timers) and a minimum on the MLB roster. Overall, not a bad strategy, but not realistically balanced. As you note, the MLB product has to make sense too. Elias has not been respectful of the fan base ... his customers, with his MLB personnel decisions. Stuck w/Rio too long; no capable 3B in the system, got to go get a real one. Should not have traded Iglesias. Needed to be more creative at filling 2B - try Mountcastle and / or Sisco at 2B - invest in them, not just a Gonzales or Urias. Too partial to minor leaguers that he liked as an evaluator. Too cautious with pitchers and pitch count. The Rays do this too (See Snell in WS), but it is not smart. This is where the eye test comes in to play. There are situations where there is a rhythm achieved that counters the data. Like Dave Trembly, this is where Hyde struggles, and Freddi G. doesn't help much. Chris Holt can help some, but clearly the strategy is to be conservative with pitchers and pitch counts. Got to do better, but this is where strong defenders make a difference, turning a DP, position players showing great range, prioritizing defense. This would make the pitching results better, thereby reducing the use of the Norfolk shuttle. This lack of balance in using resources is how Elias earns the scorn, or at least the skepticism, of fans to have hope. When you are selling "futures", you're selling hope also.
I think the cherry on top of all this rebuild discussion is your #2 overall pick from 2020 Heston Kjerstad has myocarditis at 22 years old, and has basically not been between chalk lines since he was a college player in 2020. We can't even think of him joining the MLB roster for at least a season and a half after he hasn't seen a live baseball thrown at him since pre-COVID. Talk about bad luck and a pall over this franchise and its draft picks...........
Kids these days ... they say the darndest things! :)
Damn kids:)...go O’s...
Any truth to the rumor that Arizona and Pittsburgh want to move to the AL so they could play the O’s and get out of last place?
Hmmmmmm....now that's a thought.
How long did it take for Elias to turn around the Astros? That’s his highest profile success story, but what was the timeline? I haven’t looked into the specifics.
I know there’s lots of variables, and it’s not a direct comparison but just trying to see how many years it was.
Please no trash can jokes. This is a serious question.
Icty (can I call you that?) ... he was never the GM in Houston. I'm not sure you can give an assistant credit for something like that.
Got it. I didn’t know that.
His name (to me) seems to be synonymous with the Astros “turnaround”.
Regardless, anybody know the timeline?
The Strohs under Jeff Luhnow in 2012, when Elias joined, had one of the worst records in MLB.
5 years later, they were World Champions.
Hopefully Elias went to school on Luhnow. But even if he didn't, how much credit for that 5 yr. turn around does Luhnow and his skills deserve ? Some credit must be given to Crane and some good ole luck.
So, in trying to answer the question..... I'd say that given the absolute best of circumstances, it would take the Luhnow protege 5-6 yrs. He started here in 2019. We have the Covid shortened season, so I would strike that season.
Lots of variables as you mentioned, but I'd have to answer 2025 at the earliest for O's to be competitive and playoff caliber again under this scheme. And that assumes all the pieces fall into the right places along the way.
Just a guess mind you......but I would add a couple of years to that timeline, and say 2027.
Lots of baseball between now and 2027 but I would like nothing more than to be proven wrong and presented with a giant plate of "crow" , which I will gladly gobble down.
But even if I'm proven accurate in my prediction, Orioles fans shouldn't have to stomach astonishingly bad baseball along the way in the name of patience.
Playing devil's advocate
And the Houston Cheaters did not win the WS until they traded for BIG BUCKS Justin Verlander. Will the Angelos boys let the Boy Genius do something like that? No Verlander. No World Series win.
Stroh’s, you’re getting me to think of old beer...lol...go O’s...
Just saw that Kluber is injured again. Aside from Chris Davis he has to be the person who makes the most $$ but plays the least amount of time.
I like watching him pitch. He’s unswerving on the mound. A methodical zombie like unemotional machine. He doesn’t even look at the catcher until the very last second, then he deals.
This has nothing to go with the O’s other than I’m surprised they haven’t done something like this yet this season. If you haven’t seen it you MUST catch a replay of what happened in the Cubs/Pirates game today. Runner on 2nd, ground ball to 3rd, wide throw to 1st, batter stops running, back pedals all the way to home, runner on 2nd scores, batter then runs to 1st because no one is there, beats throw, proceeds to 2nd as no one is there as well. It never occurred to 1st baseman to TAG THE FREAKIN’ BAG. MLB in 2021 in a nutshell. But I’ll bet he can do a mean bat flip, that is, on the rare occasion he makes contact. MLB is an absolute joke!!!
When the most charismatic personality on a baseball team, generating the most fan response, wears a business suit, you know all you have to know about the team. (Apologies to Connie Mack)
Watching MLB network the last few days and this is how bad it is for the O’s now. The announcers, and I mean all of them, aren’t even criticizing them. They’re simply treating them with apathy. That’s far worse than criticizing them. It’s as if they are completely irrelevant and dont’t even deserve a mention. This is just so embarrassing for a once proud organization that was among the best in baseball for decades.
I don’t know that I’ve heard announcers being critical of players. Palmer will say some stuff, but no, they generally refrain from “the truth”.
Assuming it has a lot to do with drinking the company kool aid and keeping your job.
Much of corporate America is the same. Repeat the safe talking points and keep feeding pabulum to the masses. No real surprises there.
I'm tired of hearing people defend what we got for the Manny trade. They say we shouldn't have expected much since the Dodgers were only getting him for the playoff run. So every team who sells a player in July shouldn't have expect much in return? That's just a bunch of BS. Tell that to Boston every time Eduardo Rodríguez makes a start - he's been a top notch starter with them for 5 years. I don't think it's too much to think that the O's should have gotten at least someone that is a competent every day player in that trade.
I'm not blaming Elias on that trade since it was done under DD. I'm just sick of the complacency that the O's suck and we just have to be patient.
The MLB network analysts yesterday said the Cubs should not expect to get much for Kris Bryant and their other stars in their last year with the Cubs. And they even mentioned the Manny trade as an example. I guess you should be on MLB network. You obviously know more than their analysts.
It’s the owners who are trying to squeeze as much money as they can get from this club. MLB please help us. Cal buy the club
There can be no sale anytime soon. Also keep in mind that PA is not the sole owner, he is the largest share owner, but there are 2-3 other partners (maybe more). The Angelos brothers and Elias need to understand that Balto is not Houston. Completely different situation in Houston. Change of Owner...Change of League, much bigger market, never a big baseball town tradition, fewer large, corporate supporters. Plus a different time: Pre scandal, Pre-pandemic. I am all for having a plan, actually I think the plan is a good one; but as Mike Tyson reminds all - Everybody's got a plan, until they get punched in the face.
Oh man, great stuff Rich!! Nothing better than an interview with Elias - it’s like throwing blood in the water during Shark Week! Love it!!
Thomas, if nothing else, Elias inspires passionate responses.
Wish we could see a passionate termination of Elias and his bum puppet field manager Hyde.