When Mike Elias was asked about manager Brandon Hyde before Wednesday’s Orioles game, the team’s executive vice president/general manager said Hyde wouldn’t be judged by the team’s record this season.
The Orioles enter Friday night’s game against the Toronto Blue Jays on an eight-game losing streak. Earlier, they had a 14-game losing streak, equaling the second longest in team history. They also have lost 19 in a row on the road.
Since John Means pitched a no-hitter on May 5th, the Orioles are 7-30. Overall, they’re 22-46
Elias said he wasn’t going to answer if the team was contractually obligated to Hyde in 2022. He’s never discussed terms of Hyde’s contract.
Elias’ contract also is unknown. Many believe it to be a five-year deal, but not even Cot’s Baseball Contracts, a widely followed site that includes details on player and management contracts, lists terms for either the manager or general manager.
In the previous regime, multi-year extensions for former manager Buck Showalter and vice president of baseball operations Dan Duquette were announced in January 2013, and everyone knew their contracts ran through 2018.
Hyde’s record in his three seasons in Baltimore is 101-189 for a winning percentage of .348. Baseballreference.com ranks manager’s winning percentages based on a minimum of 315 games, and Hyde falls just short. But a .348 percentage would be the sixth worst in major league history.
As fans have endured the losing seasons, the last two under Duquette and Showalter, and three under Elias and Hyde, they’ve become increasingly impatient. There’s a rebuild in place, but no one knows how it will turn out.
Many have grumbled about Hyde, but there’s really not much to grumble about. It’s obvious that his team, particularly its starting pitching, is inexperienced.
Entering this season, of the six pitchers who have started more than one game, only Matt Harvey had more than 38 starts.
John Means, who’s on the injured list, had 37 in 2019 and 2020. Jorge López started 33 times in his first five seasons. Keegan Akin, Dean Kremer and Bruce Zimmermann combined for just 11 starts in 2020.
Because teams played just 60 games last year, the Orioles are monitoring starter’s innings in an attempt to get them through the 162-game schedule healthy.
Those who think that Hyde is pulling pitchers too early aren’t looking at the big picture. If Akin, Kremer, Zimmermann and perhaps Zac Lowther and Alexander Wells are all healthy when the season ends on October 3rd, Hyde will have done something important in setting the team up for a better 2022.
Another frequent complaint is Hyde’s use of the bullpen. Like Showalter, Hyde avoids overuse. Never in Showalter’s eight full seasons as Orioles manager did he have a reliever in baseball’s top 10 in appearances. Hyde has extended that streak.
During the eight-game losing streak, the relievers haven’t been involved in any of the decisions, and Hyde has struggled to find regular work for his de facto closer, Paul Fry.
When there aren’t any games to close, having a shutdown ninth-inning pitcher is a luxury.
Hyde has come under criticism for the Orioles’ poor defensive play, particularly in Wednesday night’s botched rundown. Before Thursday’s game, he was asked what he could do to prevent similar plays from occurring
“That’s tough to answer,” Hyde said. “You have the personnel you have and you do the best you can with teaching and work and spring training, and it’s up to them to perform. We probably throw to bases as much as anybody in the game, and sometimes the game speeds up on some of our players, so you’ll see a wide miss or not cut the ball, like we should have last night.
“But we have guys on the field that have played in the big leagues for a while now, so to not understand to cut the ball or not understand to run a guy hard on a rundown, that’s reminders that us as coaches …
“We show advance meetings and show all of our positive and negative plays and continue to teach and learn. But it’s also personnel, too. You do the best you can with what you have.”
In 2019, when the Orioles went 54-108, we met with Hyde twice each day from spring training through the regular season and got to know him. Such interactions were impossible during the height of the pandemic. The tight access restrictions have recently been relaxed, and on June 8th we had our first, and only, in-person briefing with him.
For now, those sessions are before night games, weather permitting. For day games, inclement weather days and postgames, we’re still on Zoom.
The lack of personal interaction has been a drawback. We haven’t been able to talk to the players, and there are still a handful we haven’t met. But during the pandemic, Hyde has handled his obligations without complaint.
He seems to enjoy the interactions and never snaps at a questioner, no matter how uninformed the question might be. While this may not seem important to the general public, this is the side of the manager the public sees, and it’s been a positive one.
During the losing, he’s been blunt above the team’s defensive shortcomings and its failure to hit in clutch situations without singling players out.
Last season’s restrictions, which had him learn intricate health and safety protocols, were a challenge, and the Orioles had few issues. This year, he was proud of his team’s high vaccination rate.
The 108 losses in 2019, the mental toughness in 2020 and his disappointment in 2021 have been a huge challenge, but he seems to have worn them well.
Hyde was interviewed for several other jobs after the 2018 season, when he was Joe Maddon’s bench coach with the Cubs. Elias selected him for what both knew would be a hard assignment.
At some point, perhaps in 2022, Hyde might be held to a different standard and Elias could look at the won/loss record as a gauge.
I’ve often been asked to rate Hyde as a manager, and I really can’t. Like others, I’m eager to see how he’d perform with a more complete roster. I hope he gets that opportunity. The guess here is that, based on all he’s dealt with since he’s been hired, he’ll prove he’s the man for the long term.
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Hyde's current winning % falls at 6th worse in MLB history.
Then again maybe the #1 worst roster in MLB history too. Debatable.
Elias & Hyde are silhouetted right now, while Ownership washes it's hands of the matter.
Let's get some pointed interviews with dagger questions with the Angelos bros. See what their take is on all this mess.
Well, I don't think teams turn around as quickly in baseball as in other sports. And I think everyone -- from the Angelos brothers to Mike Elias to Brandon Hyde -- is taking the correct, long-term approach: the Angelos guys are putting money into the international signings, Elias is acquiring -- through the draft and trades -- as much talent as he can, and Hyde hasn't screamed to the heavens, "Who am I? Job?" about the garbage he has to manage. And I still think the Orioles will be competitive starting in 2023. I just hope Brandon Hyde has the chance to manage the good, young talent that's appearing on the Farm.
I would love nothing more than a competitive 2023 Orioles club.
International signings aside (which I believe aren't big dollars to begin with), ownership is still operating on the cheap. Until I see evidence otherwise, I will continue to point ultimate responsibility there for this current mess.
Thanks for the conversation, Hallbe!
Thanks to you as well ptjhu.
Are you a Hopkins grad ?
I guess not. Oh well, not everyone can be a Blue Jay
Yes I am -- graduated from there in 1998.
OUTSTANDING ! I hold that University & Hospital in high esteem.
Thank you for your opinion, pt, but I don't think human beings should be referred to as "garbage." Just my opinion.
PT, I dispute the accuracy of your assessment that Elias is "acquiring...as much talent as he can." That could only be accurate if ownership has given him an inexcusably small budget that precludes acquiring first-rate talent, the fan base be damned and the bottom line be praised. With the exception of a very few players acquired in trades for our stars of yesteryear, pretty much every other player acquired has been a discard from another team or a minor league-level free agent. Ironically, in the next sentence you swing 180 degrees and more accurately categorize our collective talent level as "garb..." (deference to Willi). Some of us dismiss the excuse that the rebuild is long-term and the fan base should shut up and gratefully accept multiple years of an embarrassingly bad last place team near or above 100 losses. There is a better middle ground between spending mega millions on free agents and signing players with subpar MLB stats. Given that the promising farm talent is still mainly at the AA level, 2023 seems at least a year too early for the great turnaround.
First of all, I wish to apologize to you and Willmiranda about the "garbage" comment. I didn't mean to offend anyone. However, there's no 180 degree switch here: it takes time to rebuild a baseball organization that wasn't great at any level of play. So noting that the talent is at the A/AA level and not at the MLB level is in keeping with that trend. And if the turnaround starts in 2023 or 2024? So what. Talk about getting fat mixed with stew. What the Orioles are going through is what the Astros went through and what the Cubs went through and what Tampa went through. And those teams came out pretty well. Finally, where was it suggested anywhere on this page that "the fan base should shut up and gratefully accept multiple years of an embarrassingly bad last place team near or above 100 losses"? What a Republican way of bending to light to fit your narrative.
I hope Hyder is around when the team becomes relevant.Elias had to start the build at the lower levels and this takes time. Hyde needs to be judged when he has a contender. Right now he’s analyzing the young guys and dealing with the disinterested veterans, while trying to win games. Not easy. As a fan , it would be nice to see Elias make moves now to put guys on the field that are hungry , hustle, and focused.
Most of the guys on the field are on one year deals, trying to stay in the majors, young or wouldn’t be starting for 28-29 other mlb teams. If the guys on this roster aren’t hungry, hustling and focused this year, they’ll never be. Too many players dream of being in the majors and this is a shot for the valaika’s, rule 5s, 1/2 the pitchers etc., to make a statement and try to prove something. They simply haven’t. I still don’t think Hyde and his staff deserves a pass on fundamentals because of lack of talent. 12 year olds can hit the cutoff man and cover a base in a rundown. Don’t tell me that major league players can’t because they’re not as talented as the Yankees.
Maybe they haven't proved anything 'cos they're just not that talented? And don't you think these guys should know the fundamentals before they reach the big leagues? I mean, do you think the Dodgers' Dave Roberts tells Mookie Betts before every game, "Don't forget to hit the cut-off man"?
Rich, Thanks for the well written synopsis. I like Hyde. Obviously, he has had very little to work with particularly from a pitching staff prospective. Kinda like Custer at Little Bighorn.
I agree Hyde has not had much talent to work with. I just do not think he is magically going to change the way he manages when he finally has some actual major league players. Why can't we promote a catcher from triple AAA to replace Severino . We all know Adley is the future so why not see who may be suitable backup ? Same with second base. Not sure we need to protect every players major league time. I would rather see some young hungry players besides current catcher, second and third basemen.
Thank you, Orioles chatter.
1 more post today. Below is an article on why teams would pass on #5 rated talent for lesser rated talent in a given MLB draft. If you were as confused as I was, it may help. Bottom Line: I don't like underslotting. Drafting is a roll of the dice anyway, regardless of what strategy you employ. There is a reason a kid finds himself in the #10 of rated prospects. And no, it's not because the scouts are invited for dinner each night they're in town. It's because for 1 reason or another, they are better than their competitors. If you roll the dice on them, you'll have a better chance of success. Especially if your forte (read O's here) isn't developing players.
https://sports.stackexchange.com/questions/4951/whats-the-purpose-of-making-a-below-slot-high-round-draft-pick
Way to cut 15 words off BB !!
Hyde seems like a good guy but he doesn’t have situational awareness when it comes to managing. He doesn’t manage the bullpen well. He also doesn’t seem to hold these guys accountable for there screwups. Look at the past two games in Cleveland. It was error after error and just terrible defense overall. Not to mention it was the same guys making the errors.
We don’t know what Hyde is doing behind the scenes. Because we don’t see him grinding guys on the field or calling a huddle in the dugout doesn’t mean he’s not addressing it another way.
I’m just not seeing a lot of call-the-guy-out-in-public type management in baseball or in business nowadays.
True but he doesn’t address it through the media by saying we went over it. They should be out there today for all kinds of early work
I agree 020 and hope to see that. Booting balls and making mental mistakes has to be addressed. But the majority of the players currently playing though this imbroglio are just place setters. Hope the “young” guys coming up from the minors have their fundamentals together……
I know there place holders but they still have to be able to understand the fundamentals of the game that we all learn at eight years old.
If you believe that a manager will not be judged by wins and losses, I'm sure you know about a bridge for sale in Brooklyn.
This has bothered me from the beginning. I have never heard of NOT announcing length of contracts for GMs and managers.
What possible reason could there be? Whatever it is it cannot be anything but bad.
Agree, what’s the big secret?...go O’s...
One possible explanation of this 'mystery' comes from Business Administration 101. If you want to sell your business, you should maximize interest in a maximum number of potential buyers. Two advisable steps in achieving this maximization are: 1) Have a relatively low payroll, and 2) do NOT have management under long-term, generous contracts.
Agree, longer term contracts would imply you’ll be here for a while, they definitely don’t want to pay people who no longer work here, but by not disclosing the length they send the message we may change when we can...with all the crap they’ve been doing some stability or semblance of stability would’ve been nice...go O’s...
Just because Brandon Hyde doesn’t single out or berate his players publicly doesn’t mean these things aren’t addressed internally
Look I think we can all agree that 2b , 3b and catcher are place holders . That being said this organization for far to long has accepted mediocre as the standard . I get that they may not be as talented as some but the last 4 games have been absolutely atrocious throwing the ball around missing cut-off men failure to execute a rundown . Another issue is the injuries I get they come with the game but if I was in a Hay’s or Santander’s position, being on the cusp of being a star, you’d have to drag me from the field these guys are continually on the DL .
With all due respect Rich while I agree win/loss is not a good judge for Hyde I can’t agree he has done a good job you’ve got to hold your players to the HIGHEST standard and that just is not happening and it’s not happening over and over and over again .
Hyde, like all managers and coaches at every level, has to be extremely careful in what he says. They are all walking on egg shells. One slip of the tongue in a heated moment and they are history. Cancelled.
Ohhhh, Nellie!!!!
That’s a very good point Nellie. So true.
And that applies to most upper representatives of a corporate structure. Drink the kool aid, support company mandates, adhere to protocol because there is safety in the herd.
Sigh…..
There's a formula that predicts wins and losses based on runs scored and allowed. Under Hyde, the Orioles record has been worse than predicted each season. This season the Orioles are 4 games worse than predicted. That could be due to giving prospects some playing time at the MLB level or it could be due to Hyde and staff not getting the players to performance up to their potential, Hyde making poor decisions etc. I disagree that Hyde is doing a good job...
:)....go O’s...
Perhaps something radical is in order to create change. Lets switch manager and coaching staff with Bowie for a few weeks and see if that makes a difference. That ball club is disciplined and they appear to understand the fundamentals of winning baseball. I know this will never happen but I am so tired of losing and promises of better things to come
Keep the faith
Mike Elias has done nothing but promote a losing team in Baltimore from jump. Why is everyone debating anything other than this man's disregard for putting a major league team on the field? Something is rotten in Denmark when your top club takes 3rd or 4th chair in your system's hierarchy.
It's also been a slap to the face of those 7000+ and dwindling fans that are left paying for tickets each game. To lose by design? For what? So that you can pick a series of high draft choices to play 4 years down the road? There may be no rules in the book against it, but there should be. It's a cheater's shortcut. I'm guessing that the ethics classes at Yale were full up by the time Mikey applied.
I firmly believe that the Angelos family was in on this plan with him before the ink was dry on his contract. Now Elias may eventually, and hopefully for all of us O's faithful, be proven a great GM in a few years, but as of today, I can't believe this snake of a man allows his manager to fall on his sword for him every day the team takes the field.
Mr. Elias and the ownership need to step up and take blame for what they've done to OUR team. Mr. Hyde is the proverbial one legged man in this butt whoopin' contest.
Butt "kicking" .. dang it... gosh I hate when people butcher cliche's.
It’s 2:30pm on Friday and I see the O’s have DFA’d Sisco. Can’t wait to read your “take” on this move. Mine is that no team will “bite” on him and he’ll end up back in the organization... somewhere.
As you might guess ... I'm not happy.
BRR, It would be nice if you were happy, but heed the words previously expressed by a commenter that we both admire: "Cmon man, it’s a process."
Ekim, I would be very surprised if Sisco wasn't traded or claimed by another organization.
I love the predictions here about who is going to be a "star" or who isn't living up to their potential because of the manager. So, if your manager is not the best, you choose to give less than 100% because you can use his shortcomings as an excuse? Ridiculous in any occupation! Regarding "stars" or potential "stars", I see: Mancini, Means and Mullins. Everyone else obviously doesn't qualify or they haven't been consistently good for anything resembling a reasonable time. I find it curious that management doesn't discuss extensions. Do they not find anyone to build around? Is the entire roster trade bait? Still waiting for one inkling of rebuild versus recycle.
Yes Hyde hasn’t been given much to work with. And some of this is on whatever “system” Elias and Madjel have brought in. But I note:
1. In the last three years, who have we brought in and made better? Has anyone come in and had a career year? Is anybody stats noticeably taken off? A couple young guys like Mullins have improved and that’s about it. For all the talk about bringing Analytics and launch angles and all that, I have yet to see it. Talk all you want about Covid and short seasons, but I think if Elias and Madjel had some magic formula to improve player performance, it would have worked on SOMEBODY by now.
2. likewise I don’t see Hyde squeezing extra wins out of a bad roster. I can’t sit here and say he’s helped coax a better record than the talent warrants. So on that basis I can’t say he’s done a good job. If his top attribute is remaining pleasant during interviews then he sounds like he’s good at being a press secretary. But as a manager he adds no value I can discern.
33, You properly criticize the team, but I think you are being a bit harsh on Hyde. Making lemonade when being dealt lemons is harder than it sounds. I don't know if any manager could add a lot of value to a team that is so willing to sign pitchers with high ERAs and position players with low batting ave.s. If a player lacks the extraordinary talents required to succeed in the Big Leagues, what can Hyde do? Arguably, he should be considered for AL Manager of the Year if the team finishes with less than 110 losses. Further, I don't think we should rule out the possibility that lackadaisical play by some O's is a subconscious plea to be traded away from a train wreck. We're witnessing the effects when minimizing the payroll seems to trump acquiring proven baseball talent. I don't buy the excuse that ownership is saving its pennies until if and when the team is winning, and then expensive, big-time free agents start rolling in. Nor am I convinced that Elias's plan deserves indefinite patience. And I also cannot shake the queasy feeling that the method to ownership's madness is to reduce overhead to make the team more attractive to potential buyers.
B - I - N - G - O !
Perhaps that 100 or so million they are going to have to pay the Nats in the MASN dispute was more financial loss than the family could stomach in 1 meal.
Some sort of distorted revenge on MLB for their decision to support the Nats.
Could the current financials be somehow related to that ? Maybe that's a stretch. I don't know
The quest for high draft picks is a fools paradise, unless you have a competent staff doing the research and making intelligent choices. We have had high picks but we end up with heart burn or a guy with a shore shoulder. Someone is not earning their paycheque
Keep the faith
Yes Sisco was DFA. Severino next. This is the best thing that ever happened to him. He will be picked up and the first thing his new team should do is de program him and change his position.
Someone mentioned on this site previously about the fact that the NBA has a lottery for their top draft pick just to avoid teams tanking. I sorta like that idea. I’m not saying the O’s are tanking because I just don’t wanna believe it. I know the players are giving 100% but simply put, they’re just not talented enough now to compete at the major league level. I really don’t believe there’s anyone in the organization from top to bottom that is TRYING to lose. Winning brings back fans which is obviously what ownership wants. I don’t think ANY of us can imagine how tough this is on the players. If we’re frustrated as fans think how hard it must be for the players and coaches to not take it out at home. I’m amazed they haven’t had more guys tossed just out of mere frustration when you’re going this bad and you think the ump makes a bad call against you. I’ve been tossed out of my room at home just watching some games. Oh well, time to go put on my 1983 World Champions hat again.
I pretty much said the same thing previously, at least regarding how tough it must be for the players to be in the mortuary, I mean dugout right now. To hold your composure in front of the cameras, put on your game face for the media etc while getting your face caved in night after night must be stressful and embarrassing.
Dave, a draft lottery could be part of the next collective bargaining agreement. It would be a good idea.
Sisco DFA’d? Wow! Maybe it shouldn’t surprise me but it does.
I’m bored, rehashing the same old crap, really wish I didn’t love the O’s...go O’s...
Yeah I’m with you CalsPals. I need to up my dosage on the antidepressants….wow.
Beer helps
:)...go O’s...
the more it changes the more it stays the same
Keep the faith
I have to respectfully disagree with Rich. The errors and blunders fall largely on the coaching staff. I didn’t expect this to be a winning season, but the fundamentals are one of the few things that are (almost) entirely on the coaches. If he is coming up short on that, what other things are not being done properly that we would simply blame on the rebuild?
Totally agree BC...go O’s...
I do not understand your last sentence. Nevertheless, I'll argue that having signed some proven major leaguers and being less dependent on other teams' discards is a far more relevant argument than tossing undocumented blame on coaches.
Orioles fan for life Win,Lose or Draw. Im 63 knocking on the door of 64 and i hope i see my O'S win another World Series before my time is up.