For many, Labor Day means the end of summer. The school year begins and the Orioles’ minor league seasons end. In less than four weeks, the parent team’s schedule will be complete, too. At Dubroff’s Diner, the menu will change slightly for fall. Lemonade and ice tea will be replaced by hot chocolate and pumpkin spice coffee. I know, it’s still boiling hot, but pretty soon you’ll be wearing sweaters and long pants instead of T-shirts and shorts to sit in the booths. (Our dress code is pretty loose.)
Once the season ends, we’ll start thinking about 2019, and what the Orioles’ roster will look like. You’ve had more than a month to get used to the Orioles without Manny Machado, Zach Britton, Brad Brach, Kevin Gausman, Darren O’Day and Jonathan Schoop, and whether you’re comfortable with the direction the team is heading.
There will be more moves once October and November get here, and trade talk will begin. Now that the makeover is under way, how far would you go? Would you trade anyone else and, more important, is there anyone you’d be reluctant to trade?
This Week’s Diner Question: Is there anyone on the Orioles that you absolutely wouldn’t trade?
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Jonathan Schoop.
Solid laugh from this. Thanks, Boog.
Probably not. Anyone who could be a free agent in two years should go. It’s going to take at least 3 to get back to being competitive.
The only players eligible for free agency after 2020 are Tim Beckham, Caleb Joseph, Jace Peterson and Jonathan Villar. Andrew Cashner has a team option for 2020 if he pitches 340 innings in 2018 and 2019.
Rich: It is kind of disappointing that with the farm teams' schedule complete, we can see how far we have to go to be competitive again. We don't really have anyone who is ready to step in and be a productive major leaguer. Although, we really don't know since except for Hays, we haven't tried anyone else on the big club except Mullins.
If we trade anyone, we really need to get major league ready talent but I am not sure if we have anyone who would bring that talent to the ball club. As for not trading, Mancini would be at the top of my list.
Spin, the Orioles tried Sisco, David Hess, Tanner Scott, Austin Wynns, Ryan Meisinger, Steve Wilkerson and Jimmy Yacabonis this year. All of them are products if their farm system.
Because most of them were already up, they didn’t have much to add come September.
I absolutely agree that they don’t have any top-shelf, major league ready prospects.
Rich... What makes what you said so depressingly sad is that we gave up six bona-ride major leaguers and got nothing of immediate value in return. Of what’s on the team right now there’s not much there that any team would give up anything of real value for. Of course, there’s always the possibility that we could trade 10 for one legitimate “star” but who would be there to support him (and would the Angelooser boys be willing to pay him in the end). The sifting though all the prospects (?) is going to take a very long time and I’m not sure I’ll be alive by then.
Ekim-I would argue that Jonathan Villar is of immediate value. He’s outplayed Schoop so far, though there’s no question Schoop is better overall.
Years of team control and developmental state should dictate who is and who isn't untouchable. I would say overall that if the team aims to contend within three years, certain players need to remain. I'd look at Cobb and Cashner as the foundation for a rotation through the rebuild, with an eye on extension if the team is ready to contend again in that time. However, if this is a protracted rebuild, then who is and who isn't untouchable depends on the return. I would not go full fire sale with the whole organization, but if a player brings a healthy return of top prospects, then pull the trigger. I would not refuse to field calls for anyone, but if a player will be part of the team after the rebuild then the return needs to be significant.
Well said, bigdaddy.
Rich I would keep listening to offers on any player currently on the Orioles roster. It's not like they have the next Manny on their line up .
Dblack, I think they’ll at least listen.
An emphatic NO. I'd even showcase Mullins,Mancini,Bundy. Anything goes. I just can't figure out how Dan(or whoever) can't dip mildly into the FA market like they claim they're not. Even during a rebuild you have to fill the gaps.
Orial, I’m sure you’ll see some free agents signed to one-year contracts over the winter.
Once Trumbo is traded Trey will become the everyday baseman and Davis will be the DH. Mullins in center, Hays in RF. Build around them
Thank you, Tim.
I'd potentially add Villar to that list, either as a stopgap at SS or our 2B of the future. Depending on how he performs next year, we could look to extend him. He doesn't become a free agent until 2021, and he'll be 30 then. He could be a piece in the post-rebuild years.
To think that a +/- .300 team has an untouchable player is #Crazytown talk. I'd move Bundy for the right bundle of prospects. I believe no one now on the 25-man roster will still be making a significant contribution when next we are truly, sustainably competitive.
Many fans agree with you, Boss.
Our situation reminds me of the old saw: If we had ham, we could make a ham sandwich, if we had bread. I think any trade that gets you a better player is a good trade and that individually there are better players than the ones we have now. But will we identify the matchups correctly? The scary thing is that when we had all the talent we let go, we still weren't very good although many thought -and still think- that those players were game changers.
will: You are spot on with your comment about we were bad (40+ games below .500) with all of the players that got moved at the trade deadline. It seems that we need an organizational culture change that will involve more than just our players. Hitting nothing but 3-run homers worked in Earl's day, but the present team can't hit 3-run homers with no one on base. Everyone wants to lead the team in home runs but no one seems to lead the team in on-base percentage.
Spin, Weaver's managing is often oversimplified. It was pitching, three-run home runs, defense and fundamentals. Without Palmer, McNally, Cuellar, Dobson, McGregor, Martinez, Flanagan and Stone, the three-run home runs wouldn't have mattered.
That talent helped get the Orioles to the playoffs three times in five years, will. Perhaps they waited too long to move them.
Agree that everyone should be on the table, including Givens. Team control is great when utilized to help offset salary for a competitive club. Unfortunately that window has closed so the lesson must be learned to not wait too long and be forced to rebuild when you can reload instead. Difference being a rebuild is all inclusive and a reload is tweaks to an ongoing evolving (not static) core. Manny was held too long. Schoop, Brach & Gausman (even including O’Day) were desperation moves to slash salary (although I do like what Villar has brought so far). Learn the lesson with Bundy, Mancini, & Givens! Move them before the value starts to diminish and stockpile high ceiling prospects (more than can be used since they are prospects and not locks after all). Fill in gaps with FA 1 year deals that can be moved at the deadline next year for mid level prospects as a best case. Any opportunity to add via the draft or internationally should be taken, but with 2021 or most likely 2022 as the eta to be a significant contributor.
That's an interesting scenario. Jobu.
I agree with the above comments but consider that we gave up first rounders for one year each of Cruz (whom we should have kept) and Gallardo (whom we should have skipped). Plus we just gave up $750K in international funds for a 23 year old A-ball repeater. Free agent the current management too!
Gary... “Free agent the current management too!” ...my sentiments, exactly!
Keep Mullins for the rebuild. I’d keep Mancini, partly because of his work ethic and dedication — it should be a good example to younger players. (Not that he’s that old himself.) Keep Villar as well — although I don’t foresee anyone overwhelming us with an offer — because you could likely resign him for a reasonable cost when his contract runs out. Actually, I can’t imagine any team would make an attractive offer for anyone else on the major league roster, except for Cobb, whose contract probably makes that unlikely. So Mullins, Mancini, and Villar.
I'd be surprised if any of them were traded, Fareastern.
The Orioles don't have much left on their active roster that would net them a decent prospect. Givens had an off year and his value has certainly diminished. Mullins, Mancini, and Villar are the pieces to build around, so I doubt any of the three would be traded. I could see Beckham and Wright being non-tendered to free up spots on the 40 man roster. They will likely sign a couple free agents - position players as well as a 4th/5th starter type.
That's an interesting plan you have there, Grand Strand.
Absolutely DO NOT trade Chico Salmon or Ken Gerhart.
I’m wondering if Ken Gerhart might have had a negative WAR for his career. Salmon, however, had some good years for Cleveland if memory serves me, which it well may not.
Good calls, Fareasterm. Gerhart had a -.6 WAR and Salmon a 1.0.
No one is untouchable on the current roster, pretty self-evident.
I would agree, jkneps.
Mancini & Hays
Hey Rich,
I'd say no one is untouchable, FOR THE RIGHT PRICE.
I would say we could immediately listen on offers for Bundy, Givens, Mancini, etc. Problem with that is most of our guys worth trading are heading into this offseason after a down year. Bundy and Givens have both been rough this year, and they're both better than what they've shown in 2018. I'd say unless you're blown away by an offer, hold on to them and see if they can rebuild some value leading into the 2019 deadline.
Thank you, Sisco Kid.
I know one, that I would trade! And that would be Davis. I know, that will never happen ( nobody wants him ). Let’s get real now. How many games ( all it would have taken, would have been a single or a fly ball ) has he lost for the
I know one that I would trade, and that would be Davis. I know that will never happen, ( because nobody wants him ) Where would the Orioles be, ( just think about it ) If he just got a single or flew out, with men on base. I know he is not the only reason, the Orioles have lost over 100 games, but he sure as hell contributed. If the Orioles want to win next year. They have to get real. It doesn’t look like, he is going to come around. 1.) I would figure out a way, to chalk up his Millions, as a write off and get rid of him or bench him. Let’s face it, WE WILL NEVER WIN, WITH DAVIS. Put Mancini and or Trumbo at first. Who’s not playing first, will DH. They’ve got to get a real shortstop and pitching coach. Their pitching and the Team, as a whole, will come around, once the air is cleared and they can breath again!