Tap-In Question: If you could pick any former O to pitch World Series Game 7, who would it be?

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• Joe Saunders. Or Jake Arrieta.

  • Like the Saunders reference. Some have to consider Arrieta.

• #22

  • Understood.

• Even though I know it'll never get me a drink chip, it has to be Cakes.

  Dan .. how can you include the likes of Curt Schilling in this hallowed list? Really? Who in their right mind would consider him an Oriole? You've left a bad taste in my mouth this morning. I really, really need that drink chip!

  • Boog: The man was 11-2 with a 2.23 ERA in 19 postseason starts basically in the Steroid Era. 4-1 2.06 ERA in 7 WS starts. I'd do a disservice to you fine people if I didn't include him, short O's career and all.

    • By that reasoning, we'd have to include Jose Bautista as an Oriole. And that's JUST as wrong.

  • But he would qualify. Technically.

    • I guess you have to include who you have to include. Like we've said before ... it's your site!

• Minus the spring training comeback Palmer tried, I didn’t get to see him pitch. Great answer, but for me I would pitch Mike Mussina. I miss having an ace like Mike was before he went to NY. He always seemed to come up Big when we needed it.

  • I remember when people questioned his big-game toughness. Foolishness. Pitched in 23 playoff games and had a 3.42 cumulative ERA, which was also inflated some in the end of his career.

• If you're looking at all time Orioles, then it has to be Palmer, no question. That Mike Mussina guy was pretty good too, but I think I'd probably start him in game 2.

  • I might sneak a lefty in between -- one of the Big Game Macs.

    • Make it Cuellar ... no disrespect to Flanny.

• Dan, you know there has to be some consideration shown to "Bullett" Bob Turkey. I'll let you pull the stats, but he certainly had his fair share of playoff games in his career (both wins & saves).
  ;0)

  • Good one. Drink chip. Turley was very respectable in the postseason -- all WS at the time. All for the Yankees. (Traded away in same deal as Larsen). 15 games, eight starts, six finished, 4-3, 3.19 ERA. Won 1958 WS MVP honors.

• Jeremy Guthrie, Sidney Ponson, Ben McDonald. Listen, if we're in game 7 of the WS, at this point, I'm thrilled to be there. But of the all-time greats, I'd go with Jim Palmer, but the 1975 version. Otherwise, I want 1968 Dave McNally. They were both dominant pitchers with WHIP around or below 1.00, ERAs around or below 2.00, and pitched deep into games. I'm going season-specific because a pitcher isn't the same from season to season. As a third option, 1992 Mike Mussina, for mostly the same reasons, but I have a soft spot for the old 4-man rotation guys who tossed 7+ every outing.

  • Interesting that all three of those incarnations were not in the playoffs in those years. Drink chip.

    • They weren't but they were as good as they ever were those seasons. Not their fault.

• Jake Arrieta. Palmer had a majestic career but I just feel he could not generate the velocity to make it through Turner, Bellinger and Puig and end up unnecessarily taxing an already exhausted bullpen. I don't care how good he looks in his underpants, come on guys, we've had enough problems with starters not going the distance and you want to put a 72 year old on the mound?

  • You're questioning whether a guy with 211 Complete Games Pitched can go the distance?

    You're bordering on blasphemy my friend!

    Turner, Bellinger & Puig would have all whiffed on Palmer's high heat just like they all did. (that's if the rule book's strike zone were enforced)

  • Palmer had location with velocity on his prime. And according to his teammates he had the ability to ratchet it up when needed. Deadly combo.

    • Obviously you guys missed that punchline.

      • Nah .. I got it.

  • I missed it. Had a lot to read and did it too quickly. Drink chip.

  • um.... look up Palmers # of complete games pitched

• Just to be different, I'm going to go with Dave McNally, 1968 version.

  He put up the best WHIP in a season of any starter in Orioles history at 0.842
  He had the best H/9 in a season of any starter in Orioles history at 5.7

  22 Wins, 1.95 ERA, 6.7 Ks/9, 273 Innings, ERA+ of 150

  By the numbers only, that's what you'd want on the hill.

  #2 on my list is 1975 Jim Palmer
  #3 would be 1992 Mussina

  • See above. Crazy that their best seasons didn't land team into the playoffs.

• Addendum:

  If we're only talking game 7...

  Forgo the starter and put in our greatest bullpen arms. Play the hottest hands as it goes.

  • I'd rather have one starter shove.

• Palmer no doubt, McNally, Cuellar and Mussina would be excellent choices also but happened to think of Mike Boddicker also.

  • Boddicker from 1984 would be a great choice. He had great stuff that year that he never really recaptured in Baltimore. Had some good seasons later in Boston, but none like that 20-win campaign.

  • That was an amazing year for him. Last 20-game winner for franchise.

• Hoyt Wilhelm

  • Going old school. Nice. I guess the real question is whether you'd pick him to start or pitch in relief.

  • Yup. Either. You know he never made more than 10 starts in a season until 1959 when he was 36 and made 27. That year he led AL in ERA (2.19) in 226 innings.

• I'm going with the 1970 Dave McNally, the only pitcher to hit a grand slam in a World series game. He'll beat you with his arm AND with his bat (borrowed from Curt Morton).

  • I like the all-around creativity. Drink chip.

  • Thanks for the chip. I never thought I'd earn one in this fine establishment full of very knowledgeable baseball folks.

    Also my apologies to Curt Motton, whose name got mangled by auto correct.

  • Yep. I let that one go. I know when typos/autocorrect strike.

  • Kind of like Chris Davis, except the bat part.

• I never saw Palmer pitch, and if I did, I was too young to have any memory of the late 70s and/or early 80s.....I definitely never saw Cuellar or Dobson or the other great O's pitchers of the '60s and '70s pitch either so for me, the person I would start is the October 1997 version of Mike Mussina. The games he pitched in the ALCS that year were some of the best post season pitching performances I ever saw and the team didn't win either one! Not only were those games heartbreaking for Baltimore, but it must've been earth shattering for him to be completely dominant and have the team lose both times since they couldn't score any runs.

  • Yep. He was great then.

• I would use Mike Mussina. The one time Jim Palmer had a chance to pitch a do-or-die game he pitched horribly against the Milwaukee Brewers. Mike always pitch well in the postseason.

  • Ouch. Robin Yount was pretty damn good, too. Remember Palmer was almost 37 in that 1982 game. And I'm not sure a 20 year old beating Sandy Koufax in LA can be overlooked. Palmer had some huge moments.

    • Don Sutton was on the 66 Dodgers, so he was old also and pitched a great game. That loss did spur the 83 Orioles to win it all, so we do have that.

  • And Palmer allowed 3 solo homers and an unearned run set up by his own errant pickoff in 5+ innings. Wasn't like he walked the ballpark. Sutton was better that day. He's in the Hall for a reason too.

• although I was never really a fan of the guy David Wells had something about himself that I think he would be a good choice.

  • He was never afraid to take the ball. That means something in high-pressure games.

• 1-Palmer
  2-McNally
  3-Mussina
  4-Cuellar
  5-Bunker(healthy
  6-Boddicker
  7-Dobson
  8-McGregor

  • McGregor much higher on my list. Shutouts in winner-take-all games vs California in 79 and Philly in 83.

• Palmer
  Cuellar
  McNally
  Mussins

  • Pretty solid starting four.

• Palmer my all-time favorite O's pitcher

  • Sure. 268 wins will do that.

• One of my baseball thrills was watching Palmer in the 70's On a weekday afternoon I got a walk-up ticket at Memorial Stadium for Box AA, first row behind home plate to watch Palmer dissect Texas. A couple guys got on in the first inning when he was throwing nothing fastballs, and then he went to work. Magnificent! But for this day and age, I'll go contrarian and take Wilhelm. All these hyperactive wild swingers would look like drunks trying to catch snowflakes on their tongues. And there never was a cooler customer.

  • Wish I could have seen Wilhelm pitch. And the pizza sized mitt used to try and catch him.

• Of course, no Orioles pitcher can match the success of Jim Palmer. But, an honorable mention should go to Mike Boddicker. In 1983, he was a dominant post-season pitcher. The MVP of the ALCS, he pitched a pair of complete games, one in the ALCS and one in the World Series. In the ALCS, he threw a shutout in Game 2 against the White Sox in a game the Orioles had to win. (It was best of 5 back then and the O's were down 1-0 in the series going to Chicago for game three. His effort sparked a three-game winning streak that led them to the ALCS title.
  In the World Series, it was deja vu. The Orioles lost the first game to the Phillies but Boddicker came up with a complete game win in Game 2. That started a four-game winning streak that led the Orioles to the world championship.
  In his two post-season starts for Baltimore, Boddicker pitched 18 innings and had a 0.00 ERA. He walked three and struck out 20.

  • Certainly. He and McGregor carried the pitching in that one.

• Palmer would be by pick only if he was pitching at his level 50years ago.

  • I don't mean right now. Tho he could probably still throw strikes.

• Ordinarily Palmer but since he got routed by Milwaukee in the last game of the 1982 regular season I'll go with Scot McGregor who promised his teammates he would do the deed in the 1979 ALCS versus the Angels. Boddicker would be second, then Palmer.

  • Funny story on that. Apparently McGregor meant it as a pick-me-up to Al Bumbry who had a key error in series versus Angels. Dauer heard it. Started yelling that Mac was guaranteeing a victory. And then McGregor couldn't back down. But his intention was never a guarantee. Hilarious. And one of the things I leaned when writing my book.

• Palmer. (Presuming healthy.)

  • Sure

• Palmer with Mussina a very close 2nd

  • Solid.

• McGregor. Lefty. Clutch. After him, I guess Palmer.

  Reliever? The guy we have now but last years version and then Stanhouse.

  • I dunno. Stanhouse still makes me nervous.

    • That was part of his charm. OK, we’ll go with Tippy.

• I’d start Cakes, but have Moe Drabowski ready in the pen. Especially if they were playing the Dodgers.

  • More definitely earned this one.

• Palmer hands down.

  • Fair enough.

• I want to say Steve Stone circa 1980; but have to go with Moose.

• Probably Curt Schilling, but if we can only consider their time as an O, then I'll go with
  Stone...

• Absolutely Jim Palmer!

• Yes, Jim Palmer is an absolute slam dunk for Game 7 starter. There are other pitchers worthy of consideration. Schilling, of course, is a good choice, as is Arrieta, though I decided to focus strictly on what was done during Oriole careers.

  While Cakes never started a Game 7, he was uniformly superb in the postseason (4-2 in nine World Series appearances--eight starts--3.20 ERA, 1.33 WHIP, and 8-3, 2.61 ERA, 1.21 WHIP overall playoff record). He's also the only pitcher in the history of baseball to win WS games in three decades.

  Something I like to point to as well are his bookend appearances in the World Series, both critical games in which he bested future Hall of Famers.

  In 1966 as a rookie he put himself on the map as one of the best young arms in baseball, winning Game 2 on a 6-0 complete game against the Dodgers. The significance here is that it was being played in L.A. before heading to Memorial Stadium for the third game. The Orioles had already won the first game, so it was important for the Dodgers that they prevail in Game 2, and they must have liked their chances with Koufax on the mound in what would be the final start of his illustrious career. So while not a Game 7, this was a big game on the road against one of the greatest lefties of all time. A high pressure game, and Palmer didn't back down.

  His final WS appearance came in 1983 against the Phillies. After splitting the first two games in Baltimore, Game 3 was pivotal in a Series decided in five. The circumstances were also different in that Philadelphia could close out the WS without leaving home again, as the middle three games would be at their park, and that instead of starting, Palmer relieved Mike Flanagan in the fifth. Again, Cakes would best a team's ace, as Steve Carlton was starter and loser on the short end of a 3-2 decision.

  Here's a link to video of Game 3 (minus the commercials). Why it's worth a look is because one of the announcers is Earl Weaver, who, as one might imagine, has some great insights. He notes that the game is unique in featuring three Cy Young Award winners, and when Palmer's warming up in the bullpen, he said that as a starter, he could throw as many as 140 pitches prior to the game. One of those in the booth quipped that he much enjoy talking about Palmer without Jim talking back to him.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca40KFkdOsM